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Activists speak: Over the fence at the Dutch Embassy
The following is a translated transcript of an interview with two participants in the action at the Dutch embassy December 7-9, 1995. It was made on the evening of Monday, December 11, in a safe place in Jakarta and was transcribed and translated that same night. The two interviewed are Puto, an East Timorese activist, and Bebek, a PRD activist from a town in Java.
Can you start by telling the story of what happened in the leadup to your entry into the embassy?
Puto: We had long been organising for a big action on December 7, because this is a very significant date for us. It commemorates the twentieth anniversary of the forcible and brutal entry of Indonesian troops into East Timor. For the last twenty years, we have been unable to forget this. So many of our people have suffered, have been tortured and have lost family members. So we knew that on this December 7 we would have to hold a big action, to show to the world that East Timor still lives and is struggling for its rights.
Bebek: We also wanted to show that from amongst the Indonesian people there are those who want to accompany and support the East Timorese people in their struggle for independence.
Puto: Yes, we have found that there are Indonesian people who also love democracy, so much so that they have been prepared to join our action, and support us in our struggle to make East Timor an independent and sovereign state.
Bebek: Yes, but although it is true that in Indonesia many support the struggle of the East Timorese people in their hearts, they often do not indicate this support in the real work they carry out. Now we've seen that organisations like SMID (Solidaritas Mahasiswa Indonesia untuk Demokrasi, Student Solidarity for Democracy in Indonesia), PPBI (Centre for indonesian Labour Struggle), Jaker (Jaringan Kesenian Rakyat, People's Art Network), SPRIM (Solidaritas Perjuangan Rakyat Indonesia untuk Maubere, Indonesian People's Solidarity Struggle with the Maubere People) and STN (Serikat Tani Nasional, National Farmers' Union) combined in the umbrella organisation PRD, these are the first to really prove their commitment by joining together in political action with the East Timorese. So this was a historic action.
Puto: We already had a tight network, connected by couriers, through which we had decided that at 4 am we must go into the embassy. Those who were going in were divided into a number of groups. Some were at the east of the embassy, some to the west, and then at the assigned time, a signal was given that we should start to move. And so we quickly jumped the fence, those who were short jumped up on the shoulders of the bigger ones. Some of us got caught on the fence and were injured as we crossed over. Although a few members of the security forces were present, they were unable to prevent us entering. But police patrols were coming past, and those activists who came slightly late were not able to get into the embassy. Quite a few of them had to run and scatter.
Bebek: Speaking for myself, my own stomach was gouged by the fenceposts of the embassy, because my foot got caught between the bars, forcing me down onto the tips of the bars. Some got caught and were hanging there on the fence, but we all eventually got through. A friend of ours Petrus, who is sick, had difficulty getting over the fence, but eventually he succeeded.
Puto: When we went in, from 4 am until 7 am, we held a demonstration. Then some of the political staff of the embassy came to talk with us. They asked us what our demands were. We had three demands: the withdrawal of all military troops from East Timor; the release of all East Timorese political prisoners, both in and outside of East Timor; and self determination via a referendum.
Bebek: It was a new feeling to be able to demonstrate with impunity in front of the soldiers and police outside of the fence. We taunted them and all they could do was stare at us and walk up and down. We held up our posters, and would suddenly point them down the road in one way or another. This would make them panic, because they went to great efforts to prevent journalists from getting pictures of us. They seized the cameras off every journalist who passed by. Some tried to take photos of us from the end of the road, but they seized the cameras from them too.
Did these negotiations with embassy staff go on for long?
Puto: From the start, we wanted to talk with the UN representative [High Commissioner for Human rights] Ayala Laso, with Princen [respected human rights activist].
There were a couple of demonstrations by a pro-integration group at the embassy. What were these like?
Bebek: We met with the International Red Cross, and with a representative of the Indonesian government. We were successful in speaking to two of these: the embassy invited Princen and a representative of the UN in Indonesia, Jan Kamp [UNDP]. But no representative of the Indonesian government came to speak to us, I think that they were scared to face us, because they knew that what we would say would be the truth.
Did the security forces assembled outside the embassy try to stop them?
Bebek: They did not, indeed they encouraged them. At that time, we were in the embassy garage, resting. after our lunch, waiting for our delegation, including Puto, who were inside the embassy participating in negotiations. And then we were attacked. We tried to resist, and a physical clash took place. This was witnessed by the permanent UN representative to Indonesia, Jan Kamp in fact he had to run to save himself. He saw the Dutch ambassador being wounded in the head. Blood was streaming from his wound he had been hit by a thrown rock and by a steel pipe. We all saw how brutal and violent these people were. They smashed the windows of the embassy. Three other members of the embassy staff, in addition to the ambassador, were wounded.
Were any of the East Timorese or PRD demonstrators wounded?
Puto: Six people were hit by rocks and others were hit by broken glass. One of our comrades, from Solo, was hit by a rock in the back, and he lost all physical sensation down his right side and found it difficult to move his arm.
Were there any indications that this pro-integration group who entered the embassy were backed up by the Indonesian security officials who were present?
Puto: They were very clearly backed up by ABRI (Armed Forces). Some, we believe were even forced to participate.
Bebek: We were convinced that this action had been engineered by the security forces for a number of reasons. First, how was it that they were able to get into the embassy when at that very time the embassy was being guarded so tightly by a very large number of troops? Second, many of them were witnessed climbing the fence by stepping up onto the shoulders of soldiers. Third, they arrived at the embassy site, and then departed it, in a high quality, air conditioned bus (Bis Patas Ac). They left from Polda (the regional police headquarters) and returned to polda.
Puto: And indeed, they were mostly not East Timorese, but also included a mixture of people from Flores, Ambon and Kupang. Their leaders were also not East Timorese. Also, the mass media said that those people who participated in the pro-integration actions were East Timorese who studied in Jakarta. But we checked among those of us who do study in Jakarta or other parts of Java, and not a single one of them knew them. This is despite the fact that the community of East Timorese students in Java is very close.
Bebek: We simply kept at the forefront of our minds the aims of our mission, of our struggle, that together we were joining in struggle to advance our joint interests. We kept alive our spirits, by telling funny stories, by singing songs, we did all kinds of things to make sure that our spirits did not fade. One particular thing which made all of us be able to keep our spirits high, was the role of one particular woman comrade who when at first she managed to jump the fence was in very high spirits, but at the time of the attack by the pro-integration group she suffered a great shock and trauma. But shortly thereafter, she recovered and was in very high spirits again. This made it much easier for the rest of us that she, who had been in such great terror, was in such good spirits.
Puto: The other thing which enabled us to maintain our spirits was the fact that we were so solid and unified as a group. This feeling of unity gave us a great strength, a great spirit.
Bebek: There was nothing like that, we all knew and trusted our leaders, we knew that we were being led by the right people, people we believed in, people we had chosen. There was no suspicion, only unity, and everything went according to our plans. When we first jumped the fence, we all hugged each other, the East Timorese and the Indonesians. We hugged, we were crying, so we all really felt, including the East Timorese that we were joined in the same struggle, that we were solidly united. That was a great experience. And then, after the attack by the pro- integration group, we decided to form a security team to guard our group and to keep watch. This was formed spontaneously and the Indonesians and East Timorese took equal part, equally stepped forward to volunteer. This was another experience which heightened our level of unity, our sense of solidarity.
Puto: Those East Timorese activists who took part in the action, but who had not been fully involved in the preparations, were amazed by what they saw: ``how could this happen?'' they thought. They were greatly moved and very happy, and found a new belief that there are Indonesian people who support our struggle and who love democracy. In East Timor itself, we don't really know that we have supporters in Indonesia, because there we think of ourselves as radical and nationalist. Now we are convinced that our Indonesian friends really support our struggle, and that they really do not like their regime, that they see that the situation in Indonesia is far from alright. And so now we believe that our joint struggle, this new unity must be increased and expanded.
Bebek: And we really felt this sense of solidarity, of comradeship during our action in the embassy even through such things as sharing jokes (such as when the Dutch ambassador told us not to smoke in his airconditioned rooms by saying "smoke-nee").
Puto: They told us that they supported the struggle of the East Timorese people and that they did not support integration. They said this from the start.
But in the end, they allowed Indonesian security forces into the embassy grounds?
Puto: We feel that they gave
in to the pressure from the Indonesian regime, because they told us that
they supported the struggle of the East Timorese and that they did not
want integration.
Bebek: At that time, I acted
as interpreter, the embassy people clearly said that they supported the
struggle of the East Timorese.
When the security forces were allowed into the embassy grounds, were you warned beforehand that this would happen or not?
Puto: We were not told, were not warned. This was because in the negotiations which took place that morning, we had decided that we wanted to stay on, we wanted to keep going. We held a hunger strike from 12 o'clock to indicate that we wanted to stay on in the embassy, because we had heard that our comrades had come out of the Russian embassy, after having their security guaranteed by foreign minister Alatas, Suharto himself, and Wiranto, the commander of the Jakarta military region but then what happened? Our comrades, who came out of the Russian embassy by bus and who asked to be taken to the office of the Legal Aid Institute (LBH), were instead taken to the Regional Police headquarters (Polda). This made us even more convinced of the need to keep going, and made us decide to go on hunger strike.
After that, was there another meeting with the embassy staff?
Puto: There were no more meetings. Indeed, the embassy was completely empty. From 10 am on the Saturday morning, there were absolutely no embassy staff present " right up to the time we were taken out. Even the embassy security guards were not present.
And so the final meeting?
Puto: This took place at about 4 pm, after the Indonesian security personnel came into the embassy grounds. It lasted about five minutes, and was attended first by Princen and then by the Dutch ambassador. At that point, we requested asylum.
You made this request to the ambassador?
Puto: Yes, to the ambassador. We requested political asylum from the ambassador. Princen also agreed to this. But as soon as he left, the security forces began to force us out.
Were the security forces already present at the time of this last meeting?
Puto: Yes, they were in the same room, on the second floor of the embassy building.
Bebek: They were as close as you and I, not just a few metres away, but a few centimetres.
How many security forces were present?
Bebek: There were about two hundred, inside the building. Those who were in the building were police, but in the embassy yard there were army soldiers.
Were you forced out?
Puto: Yes, they were behind us and pushed us out. This was despite the fact that at that very time, we were in the middle of a meeting, a dialogue with the Dutch ambassador and his political staff, we were at that very time requesting political asylum. The ambassador said that now was not the time to request asylum, that now we had to get out of the embassy.
Who requested asylum, was it all the East Timorese who were present?
Puto: Yes, all 26 of us.
And we also requested that the safety and security of our Indonesian comrades
would be guaranteed, by the ambassador and by the Indonesian security apparatus.
Bebek: The ambassador told
us that we had to leave, because he said that no matter what happened that
we would have to leave that night. We could leave in a good way, or they
would just extract us, using physical force, they would attack us in the
embassy.
The ambassador said this?
Bebek: Yes, he said this in our last meeting.
Puto: In fact, it's not really right to refer to the last time we spoke to the ambassador as a "meeting" we were being forced to accept what he put to us at this time. Indeed, the security forces were already there in the room, at the time we held our 'meeting' with him. They were already in the same room. And at that time, we requested asylum.
Who entered the room first, the security forces, or the ambassador and Princen?
Bebek: Princen was in the room first. At this time we knew that the security forces were coming into the building. Princen told us that the ambassador had the right to have us forcibly removed. We told Princen that we wanted to request asylum and he told us that he would transmit our request to the international Red Cross and to the UN. As the security forces entered the room, Princen left. But the ambassador, he came into the room at the same time as the security forces, he was accompanying them.
Puto: This was the time when we wanted to enter into dialogue, and when we requested asylum. But the ambassador said that we no longer had the opportunity to do that, that we had to get out, our only choice left was to leave the embassy.
What time did all of this take place?
Bebek: It was about 7 or 7:30 pm, some time between 7 and 8 pm. And they didn't even care that some of our comrades were sick, they didn't care about that.
Who didn't care? The people from the embassy?
Puto: Yes, the people from the embassy gave no attention to those of us who were sick.
What was wrong with those who were sick?
Puto: Some had very bad fever, others were suffering from the wounds they sustained when attacked by the pro - integration group.
Puto: We went downstairs, and buses were waiting for us and we were taken directly to Polres Jakarta Selatan (the South Jakarta Police base).
What happened that night, how were you all treated?
Puto: We were interrogated, our finger prints were taken, our photos taken.
Was violence used?
Puto: We were all forced to speak, each of us was interrogated separately, and were surrounded by big groups of interrogators. We were interrogated at gunpoint, they held pistols to us. One person was kicked by soldiers wearing military boots, until his shins were all torn open. This was Joaquim. Another person, called Janio, was forced to take his trousers down and his genitals were burned with a cigarette lighter. We witnessed this. Two people's identity cards are still being held there one East Timorese and one Indonesian.
What kind of information were the interrogators looking for?
Puto: They were asking, especially the East Timorese, who brought them to Jakarta, who provided them with money, who coordinated the action, how it was organised, where they slept in Jakarta and so on. They were trying to break open our networks.
Were the Indonesians and East Timorese interrogated differently?
Puto: Yes, they asked us different questions about our political and organisational affiliations.
Bebek: Indeed the interrogators had two separate lists of questions, one for the East Timorese, one for the Indonesians. And we were divided into two groups.
What about your own interrogations?
Puto: I was interrogated non-stop for 24 hours. I was not given food or drink. And I was not interrogated by just one person at a time, there would be ten, five, six interrogating me at any one time throughout the 24 hours.
Which organisations were the interrogators from?
Puto: They were all there, police, all of ABRI, Bakorstanas (National Stability Coordination Agency), BIA (Military Intelligence Agency). They were all there.
Puto: Yes, we did this because it was the tenth of December, Universal Human Rights day. When we first went into the Dutch embassy, we had hoped to celebrate that day in the embassy. So, in the police base, we remembered what day it was and wanted to commemorate it in some way. So we held an action, we sang songs of struggle, read out poetry, had speeches.
What did your guards do?
Bebek: They didn't really react, just kept quiet, maybe they were amazed.
And what happened when you left?
Puto: It was about 9 o'clock. As we left, we saw that three of our friends were immediately handcuffed and taken away, we don't know where to [At the time of transcription of this tape it appears that these three are no longer in detention]. The police told us that there were two buses ready to take us away to a bus station, but what we saw waiting for us was a military truck. So we did not want to go into this. Some of us managed to escape and jump onto public buses. We don't know what happened to everybody else, we split up and scattered.
Bebek: But each person was followed by at least three intelligence agents, using motorbikes (trail bikes). We all ran away, Puto had to jump into a river.
Puto: Yes, we were all running, we were being chased. We ran down into a small street which ended at a big river, so I and some friends jumped into it. It was about two metres deep. This got me worried because I was with a woman comrade who was quite short, and when I turned around it seemed that she was no longer there. So I had to retrace my steps and look for her, and I was very happy when I found her. We put great value on our solidarity.
Bebek: So we all split up and ran. I myself, changed buses seven times between Blok M and Manggarai. Because in every bus we got into there would be at least one intelligence agent waiting for us and watching.
Puto: Yes we feel it was very important in terms of our campaign and in terms of its international impact. This is the first time that we've held an action together with Indonesian activists who love democracy, in particular with PRD, SMID, STN, PPBI and Jaker. We feel very proud that on the twentieth anniversary of the invasion that we have successfully held such a big action. We feel very happy. In particular we are very happy about the international attention -- especially that people overseas now know that there are Indonesians who are also unhappy with their regime, who recognise how rotten the regime is.
Bebek: We also judge it a success because we have heard that our action prompted solidarity actions in a number of countries.
Puto: It was a very great action. We saw ourselves how the ABRI people asked themselves: "How is it possible that our own people [ie Indonesians] participate in such an action?" Some of them said this to us, or made it clear to us in the questions they asked us during our interrogations.
Are there plans to keep developing this kind of cooperation between Indonesian and East Timorese activists?
Puto: Yes, this was a kind of test case, a beginning. Future actions will be bigger.
Bebek: Actually we had already tried such a joint action before. On November 12 this year we held an action to commemorate the Dili Massacre in Jakarta. But this one at the embassies was on a much larger scale.